tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post5842495584076694938..comments2023-10-01T08:40:34.503-07:00Comments on Episcopal Journey of Hope: Parish TaxesAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05776475116127746642noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-15379030606536874082012-08-06T17:19:53.687-07:002012-08-06T17:19:53.687-07:00Daniel, good to have you join the conversation. Y...Daniel, good to have you join the conversation. Your suggestion to have the bishop’s staff serve part-time in congregations has been taken up by a number of dioceses; many smaller parishes have been appreciative. The concept of regional suffragans is another avenue to join together a pair of part-time ministries. In one northern diocese the Bishop is also half-time Dean of the Cathedral. <br /><br />Clearly, if the people, acting through their voluntary giving to the diocese, what this type of structure and are willing to fund it – give it a try. It might be helpful to have detailed “position descriptions” so that all parties are in agreement as to who does what and how evaluations are accomplished (especially needed for those in Episcopal Orders.)<br /><br />Rector@garygilbertson.orgGoodthunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00553897011460147537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-13742318323510647812012-08-06T16:55:27.733-07:002012-08-06T16:55:27.733-07:00Dan, just saw your post re. GC, and it is mandator...Dan, just saw your post re. GC, and it is mandatory. The idea of suffragans being dispersed has definite merit. Thanks, Dan.Ron Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18152111587171163605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-63673745270089316932012-08-04T09:38:24.682-07:002012-08-04T09:38:24.682-07:00I once suggested to my bishop that he should not h...I once suggested to my bishop that he should not have clergy on the diocesan staff full-time, but should assign them to serve mission congregations as well. I prefaced that suggestion with the comment that I wouldn't suggest returning to the practice of having bishops serve as rectors of parishes, although that is not a bad idea. I wonder if, as we consider dioceses merging, we might consider the value of having regional suffragans who also serve as rectors, especially in merged dioceses that cover a great deal of territory. Whether this would be preferable to regional archdeacond I can't say, not having worked in such a diocese, but as they say in Washington, all options should be on the table.<br />I may have misread it or the C&C may have been changed, but I recall that there was a mandatory diocesan payment for the support if the General Convention as well as the voluntary payment for program.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-14927788022108060992012-07-30T16:14:24.676-07:002012-07-30T16:14:24.676-07:00RJ, yes,too many dioceses is the bottom line. The ...RJ, yes,too many dioceses is the bottom line. The issue is finding and considering the possible plan(s) and political maneuvers to make the reduction. Gary's approach is the clean sharp, surgical knife. Kudos to the Margaret Wente quote from Gary. Thanks.Ron Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18152111587171163605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-45110210011484358662012-07-30T13:19:01.785-07:002012-07-30T13:19:01.785-07:00Appreciation to those who have viewed and commente...Appreciation to those who have viewed and commented, either on-line or directly by email, about “Parish Taxes”; each of you has added to the discussion of a critical issue in the life of our Church.<br /><br />The need to seek efficiency and reduce redundancies is well described by columnist Margaret Wente, writing for Canada’s largest English language daily newspaper; since the Church “. . . has shrunk nearly 60 per cent. Congregations have shrunk too – but not the church’s infrastructure or the money needed to maintain it.” That is the problem for Canada’s United Church and our own denomination. On the diocesan level - too many dioceses, bishops, staffs, programs, and buildings and too few people to pay for all of it. Wente goes on to add:, “Yet its leadership seems remarkably unperturbed. It’s considered wrong to be concerned about numbers—too crass, materialistic and business-oriented.”<br /><br />Voluntary giving by congregations will not be the end of the Episcopal Church nor the end of all Dioceses but it will trust the membership to determine the level of support appropriate to each ministry. <br /><br />Join in the conversation….<br /><br />Rector@garygilbertson.orgGoodthunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00553897011460147537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-25324869137270809732012-07-30T11:57:27.012-07:002012-07-30T11:57:27.012-07:00Ron, I think we need to keep Gary's first poin...Ron, I think we need to keep Gary's first point in mind when we talk about money. Why do we need to fund over 100 Dioceses when we have less than 2 million communicants?RJ McElwainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-2382583329407387692012-07-30T10:02:06.499-07:002012-07-30T10:02:06.499-07:00Hey, RJ,Dan and Don, thanks for your input. An Epi...Hey, RJ,Dan and Don, thanks for your input. An Episcopal Spring, very interesting; maybe this little blog is a bounce for the Spring!! Dan, I appreciate your opinion; however, I do not think there is an absolute and direct tie between episcopal authority and parochial financial tax support. What I mean is that any form of funding can support a bishop including a voluntary ten percent or an endowment.(If 1/3 to half of all our constituent household units fully tithed and then a congregation tithed, any bishop would be happy even without much diocesan change! The organization Empty Tomb proved that analysis years ago.)The question is what episcopal authority requires what sort of funding? I don't think anyone would disagree that bishops need a minimal predictable stream of funding. But what is a diocese for or is there another operational structure to be imagined and/or tried? What is essential and what provides continuity with valid operational and missional processes? We need to define these actual needs and quit assuming what they are.Ron Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18152111587171163605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-60742849845153920052012-07-30T08:48:33.522-07:002012-07-30T08:48:33.522-07:00Don,
Agreed. And as Gary pointed out, we’ve been w...Don,<br />Agreed. And as Gary pointed out, we’ve been watching this problem unfold for decades. And, so far, all we’ve agreed to do is “study” the problem. That’s what GC just did. Whether the next GC actually decides to take the recommendations of this latest committee is anyone’s guess, but history is not encouraging. And as you point out, nothing will happen until enough pewsitters initiate an Episcopal Spring. It will have to come from the pews.RJ McElwainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-80354397793747896722012-07-30T07:04:08.034-07:002012-07-30T07:04:08.034-07:00When we decide it is no longer expected for us to ...When we decide it is no longer expected for us to support financially the work of our bishops, can we still claim to be Episcopalians? The budgets we create in dioceses often are too large, but the way to address that is not to claim that the finances of the diocese aren't our responsibility, both in crafting reasonable budgets and in sending in our congregations' checks.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-13940845672240938212012-07-29T17:01:26.250-07:002012-07-29T17:01:26.250-07:00Merging dioceses and having fewer bishops may not ...Merging dioceses and having fewer bishops may not happen voluntarily but sooner or later economic realities will make it happen. However, this process could be encouraged by an "Episcopal Spring" movement where enough folks band together and say the status quo must be changed. <br /><br />Don BrownDonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00312031089920523470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-68544180002858605712012-07-29T10:39:27.811-07:002012-07-29T10:39:27.811-07:00Asking a Bishop to voluntarily give up or merge hi...Asking a Bishop to voluntarily give up or merge his see or allow a voluntary asking is equivalent to asking the Pope to renounce infallibility. We’re talking about giving up power, and it ain’t gonna happen.RJ McElwainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-82890712264817337272012-07-29T07:59:44.543-07:002012-07-29T07:59:44.543-07:00Thank you Gary for this pertinent article addressi...Thank you Gary for this pertinent article addressing a subject that many of us think is critical to the survival and future of the church. Taxes are what they are, pure and simple, and no amount of <br />"theologizing" will take that away. Of course it is up to the people. I think that it is time for the clergy and people to challenge their bishops and put voluntary language in the canons of each diocese, yea even in the national canons.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05776475116127746642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5127977175298485373.post-20071580072807035792012-07-28T08:48:22.938-07:002012-07-28T08:48:22.938-07:00Right on, Gary!Right on, Gary!Ron Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18152111587171163605noreply@blogger.com